Today we are going to be talking about how immigrants and refugees strengthen our churches today. Our country has a long history of immigrants and refugees seeking a better life and finding it in America and for Americans that brings an incredible opportunity to spread the Gospel both individually and also through our local churches. God has called us all to welcome strangers, to love our neighbors and even our enemies, and make disciples of all nations, but sometimes we fail to see the least of these as God does—so immensely valuable.
Mentor Mama:
Our guests today, Josh Sherif and Sarah Tierney have teamed up to write the book, "The Stranger at Our Shore," which largely recounts Josh's journey out of Egypt and Islam to the United States and his conversion to the Christian faith. Josh and Sarah help us understand the importance of receiving immigrants into not only our society, but lovingly into our churches, but first a word from our sponsor.
Mentor Mama:
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Mentor Mama:
Joshua Sherif was born in Egypt to a Muslim family and immigrated to the United States where he later came to faith in Jesus. For the past decade, he has planted and pastored in Albany Park, Chicago, Illinois, one of the most diverse neighborhoods in the country. His congregation represents more than 30 nationalities, speaking 20 languages. Josh has enjoyed his years equipping and coaching other missionaries and pastors around the world. His story was featured in, “Love Costs Everything,” a documentary produced by CIY and Voice of the Martyrs concerning Christian persecution. Also joining us today is Sarah Lou Tierney. She is a Canadian American who spent her childhood in the mountains of Eastern Congo. Due to political unrest, her family later moved to Illinois where she met and married her high school sweetheart. Jake and Sarah have two children and currently reside in the Midwest where Sarah is a therapist by day in private practice and a writer by night in her kitchen. Please welcome Josh and Sarah.
Josh Sherif:
Thank you so much for having us.
Mentor Mama:
Oh, I'm so excited to talk to you today. Let's just begin Josh with how a large part of this book is your testimony. You grew up Muslim in Egypt and later immigrated to the U.S. and converted. Can you briefly tell us how you got to this point?
Josh Sherif:
Sure. I don't want to give away the whole story, but I'm going to give you some highlights. It's a long story, but I grew up in a Muslim household in Egypt and I would say as far as faith, we were nominally Muslim but very culturally Muslim. Myself, I had a desire at an early age to be a lot more religious and my chief desire, if there was a God that was heading up the universe, was to please him in some way. And so, my endeavor and my early wish were to be an imam, a Muslim leader in the sense if you're a Christian it's the equivalent of being a pastor or a priest. And so, for me, faith took on a greater role as well in Egypt when my father had a heart attack, kind of had that health scare that scared him more to faith, and all of a sudden, we were at the mosque all the time and I delighted in that. And so, for me, coming to America fast forwarding a lot of the story here, but coming to America and living with my grandparents was a culture shock on multiple levels, not just the culture change of America and the language difference. I came here not speaking English, but my grandmother was the first Christian in our family and she had to leave Egypt due to persecution, and so, she's very serious about her faith, but what the memory that I have that I want to share, is walking by their little office and every morning my grandfather and my grandmother would be reading the Bible out loud to each other and you know, I look back and I know that was strictly for our benefit living with them. They didn't need to be reading loud enough for us to hear, but distinctly I remember walking past their office and in a sense, really hurling insults, you know, that God doesn't hear your prayers, the Bible is corrupt, and as I was confronted with Scripture, I think my approach was to confront back. They were gentle, they were loving and I can't tell you the exact day of when I became a Christian, but I do remember going from passing by and insulting to lingering at the door quietly, to being in the room and hearing Scripture, to opening up. I still have it like this little blue, Arabic Bible and reading Scripture, and it was encountering Jesus in Scripture, encountering a God who was completely different in character than any God I was exposed to, that changed my life, and it was in Scripture that I discovered the truth of who Jesus was in that room that I gave my life to Jesus.
Mentor Mama:
Such a beautiful story and I just want to encourage our readers to pick up a copy of your book, because I love all the details that you give in the book about your personal upbringing. There are so many layers of details that enrich the story. Josh, you've explained how you came to Christ, in another sense, though, leaving Islam for Christianity, what about that experience actually caused you to leave Islam? Because that was such a tremendous change for you compared to your former upbringing.
Josh Sherif:
I think for me, and I can speak on it now better than, of course, back then, but I think what was really happening for me in discovering a God who wasn’t like any other God, a God who you know was a father, a God who is love, and a God who's our Savior. That is just so diametrically opposed to anything that I understood, and a God who was gracious. I mentioned I was searching for God and wanted to please God. But I think for me, in Jesus, I found a God who had been after me and a God who was already pleased and loved me, and I think that just changed my perspective on the kind of relationship you can have with God and, you know, switching from wanting to be imam to wanting to be a pastor. I think the motivation changed as well. I didn't just reapply my motivation, but for me, it was really out of gratitude. It went from striving to gratitude because this God had saved me because this God loves me because he is my heavenly father and I am so grateful for the grace he's afforded me. How can I not continue to pursue and serve him? And, for me, that was to go into ministry and that's taken different forms through the years, and for other people, it’s different things, but I know that my service wasn't an obligation. It wasn't striving. It changed into really out of gratitude.
Mentor Mama:
Yes. And just the power of the Holy Spirit coming into you and God lifting the scales from your eyes to see. Let's shift gears for just a little bit and talk about your experience in the church today. What would you say you see as some of the problems we have regarding how we relate in America to immigrants and refugees, what can we do better?
Josh Sherif:
Sure, and I want to back up and say, as Sarah and I really discussed this book, I was very resistant, hesitant, and really didn't want to add to any more noise out there, or quite honestly, you know, I don't think that the church needs to be beaten down anymore. And so, for me, the motivation, and I hope the voice comes across in the book as well, is to encourage the church. And it’s not rebuking of the church, but my love letter to the church to say, the church of Jesus has loved me, equipped me, sent me, and I think that this is what the church by the power of the Holy Spirit is equipped to do again and again. What we call strangers at our shore, people like me, who came in to completely foreign land and discovered a God and a family that they didn't know before and I think that has less to do with being necessarily welcomed into this specific country. Although I think this specific country allows so many freedoms for us to explore faith, but more so, being welcomed into the family of God. And so, what I'm hoping to do for the church is to frame an experience and an understanding of not just who the people are who are coming to our shores, but really our role as the people of God, that in the end, we extend that same grace and friendship, and welcome people into our family who are strangers to us completely because that's our story, that's all our story. You see it all the way back at the dedication of the temple in the Old Testament, the prayer there is Lord God, we stand before us foreigners and strangers, and then you see it all the way to the hall of faith after this in Hebrews 11, this long list of faithful people, it says they consider themselves as foreigners and strangers in this land, and that's why they're able to strive for this heavenly country. And so, I think it's not just an understanding as the church that we have something or we are something, and you're not and will be gracious to you, you little people coming in, but it's really an understanding that this is the same grace and the same family that Jesus welcomed me in. And so, how could I not with open arms welcome those? And so, I'm hoping to frame not just our perspective of those who are strangers to us, but us as sojourners in the family of God and as really strangers on this earth, not divorced from the world and our cultures and our countries, but understanding that the citizenship we have is in Heaven and the family that we belong to is completely different than what we have here on earth.
Mentor Mama:
Absolutely, and I just want to applaud you because I think throughout the book, you are so respectful of your parents and your background, and so, I think you do that well, but in the same sense, you also are able to bring these opportunities into clarity to where the church can respond. What are some things that you would say the Western church needs to discard or include or change if we want to lovingly receive refugees and immigrants into our congregations and communities?
Josh Sherif:
Sure, and we did try to do that. We felt like there needed to be some uprooting first before there were some calls to action so that the book is kind of framed of first the things that we need to address, and then things that we need to add. I'll highlight a couple of things, and Sarah, you can let me know if anything comes to mind, but for me, two things that are Western that I think we need to look at again, are the expert mentality and I think a lot of people shy away from living out the call that God has given them because they feel like they have, what we call in the book, ignorance. And that's the idea that you know, I'm not an expert on this person who's coming in, who's maybe Hindu or Muslim or from this culture or that culture, and as I look at Scripture, I'm convinced that our inadequacy is actually the opportunity for the power of God to be revealed and I think God delights in that because he receives all the glory. It's not, this person's not coming to Christ because this person is a cultural expert and wow, let's praise that person. Actually, a lot of times, I think God is pleased to do things despite even our ignorance or our lack of equipping, and what I found, just real practical, and I share stories of this in the book is that let's say, there's another Middle Eastern person in my neighborhood, which there's plenty, and I would begin to build a friendship with them. Well, what is assumed already is I know the culture, I know the language, I know the customs, and so, there's a lot of stuff there that's unsaid, but what I've found over the years is that there are people who are better, even way better, disciple-makers than me that I've seen in our congregation, in our network here of our family and friends that, you know, maybe they're born and bred in Indiana or wherever in the Midwest. They have little to no cultural ties with, let's say a Middle Eastern Muslim person, but what happens there is, a lot of grace that is afforded because they don't expect you to know their language, their customs, their food, any of that, and so there's a mutuality there that goes both ways. It's, you taste their food, they taste your food, as you learn some of their languages, they learn some of your languages, as they ask you questions, and you ask them questions and I think over that bridge, the Gospel is really shared naturally because it's part of life. There's nothing assumed in that kind of interaction and there's way more grace afforded. If there's, let's say, a cultural mistake made or something wrong said, or something wrong done by somebody who was perceived outside of the culture than if I would have a cultural faux pas because I should know better. So, I have stories like that just to say that you know, I think sometimes we're wrong about needing to be an expert. And then the other thing really quick that we address that I want to highlight is what we call indignation. And that's an idea that we have a lot of anger to deal with and some of it for a lot of people, is justified, but I think that anger goes both ways. I think there are some people who could pick up this book and say, I don't know about immigrants coming to our country. I think there are also people who could pick up this book and say, this is the heart of God and I'm fully convinced before I even opened this book, but we have to still watch indignation because there are some of us who you know, maybe started on one side, not for immigrants, but now have by the grace of God, changed your hearts and your minds. It could be easy not to just get rid of indignation, but to replace it and to say, instead of indignation towards a stranger, I'm going to have indignation towards those who do not yet have a heart of love for the stranger. What God has called us to, not just to redirect our indignation to those who, you know, aren't there yet, or don't understand, or don't have the same call that we feel like we have on our life, but really to have this attitude of love and to build bridges and to create a family in every direction we can.
Mentor Mama:
Yes. Josh, thank you so much for the way that you put that, you know, just giving ourselves grace because sometimes I think it can be scary that you will say the wrong thing or offend somebody, but I loved your example about the people in Indiana. If we can set that aside and relate more to people, one on one, just as Christ would be, for example, if you're watching, The Chosen and you see him just interact and, and love people. Was there something that you wanted to add, Sarah?
Sarah Tierney:
Yes, one of the major themes of the book that we talk about that I do think is another trouble spot, I would say, in the church is fear, and a large part of the book is spent confronting our fears. The book, it's kind of a niche topic, but when you read it, it applies to not just immigrants and refugees, because there might be some listeners right now who are just thinking, this is not for me, I don't know immigrants, I don't have any refugees in my circle, but it's scary to talk to anybody who is different from you, you know? You really do have to have some courage to cross a bridge and reach out to anybody who is marginalized. So yes, we are talking about immigrants and refugees, but I think confronting that fear, I think that applies more broadly just to discipleship, honestly.
Mentor Mama:
Yeah, I completely agree. Absolutely. Tell us about some of the key people in your life that gave you the feeling that church truly is family, and what did they do that modeled that for you?
Josh Sherif:
I have a couple of stories that come to mind. The first person, completely outside of my grandmother, and my family, that really had no obligation to me personally was my Sunday school teacher. I think it was my third-grade Sunday school teacher. I had just begun to attend church and I was trying to understand Scripture, and he was an amazing Sunday school teacher, but I really don't remember the content of the lessons. What I do remember is that this man showed up at our apartment and had a little black bike for me, a brand-new bike. He built it and taught me how to ride that bike and I really realized that there was something missing as far as a father figure in my life and investment and he was really one of a long line of men in the church that invested in me and stood in that gap. So, I'll always remember that interaction and that moment of learning how to ride my bike. Another story that comes to mind, is again, and I hope people note that these aren't grand gestures, but they're purposeful gestures and they're accompanied by real friendship and care. After our conversion, our lives were in danger, and so, we began to live on the run for about 10 years and when we showed up in the Midwest and really had this apartment, but nothing else, because we just kind of packed everything in a car and drove across the country. This family showed up from the church that was receiving us with furniture. It was just used furniture, things that they didn't need anymore or whatever, but I remember this mom and dad came with this young boy that was my age, and you know, they dropped off the furniture, he and I talked and we played and he became my best friend and he was in my wedding. I was in his wedding. We're still great friends to this day. I shared that story to say, to him and to his family, we weren't a charity case or a project or people who were in a different category. They immediately loved us with their whole hearts. We were completely different culturally, everything different, but I spent all of junior high, and high school, hanging out in their basement, at their pool. I probably spent more nights at their house than my own in high school and those are just small, small little, everyday things. But what I hope it illustrates is that we were loved and we were valued and we were seen as people who could add value. Friendships don't work for 20 plus years if it's just one-sided, like you know, thinking we just need to be gracious and kind to these people, no, this is a friendship that has formed for many years because they, from the beginning, valued us, loved us, and saw the value that we brought to their lives as well.
Mentor Mama:
Absolutely. I love how you describe it more as an investment and not just a one-time gesture and the other thing that you said that really struck me there, Josh, was that you can serve with a purposeful gesture and include your kids. So many times, I think that you know, it might be an afterthought, or you're just going to go do this on your own. When at the same time you can be including your children and teaching them along the way what it looks like to be the church. So that's a beautiful, beautiful illustration.
Josh Sherif:
Even recently, for us, it's kind of come full circle. Actually, this week we have a Ukrainian family that is coming to Chicago that we've been working with and trying to help settle here and one of the amazing things is that their son is the same age as my son and it's really been moving me to feel like, wow, not only have I gotten to experience already being on the other side, I've helped families, I've helped refugees, but, it brings tears to my eyes to think now my son, you know, born and raised in this country is going to get to be part of something like that and, hopefully, build a friendship that's lasting as well.
Mentor Mama:
Yes, absolutely. That's bringing a tear to my eye too. Help us understand the difficulties that immigrants experience that natural-born citizens just don't even think of. What can people do to ease some of these burdens for them?
Josh Sherif:
I think the main one that I've experienced and I see, and I've even had people affirm and share with me, is that when there is a great loss, like leaving your country, leaving people behind, or being separated from people, there is, in a sense, a grief that remains intermixed with every new joy. So, for people who gain their U.S. citizenship that day, it is a joyful day, but it's also a day of mourning. And those who get to celebrate great moments with their new family, Christian family, also those key milestones you know, their heartbreaks for the family that don't yet know Jesus or that they're far away from. And I would say it's very similar to having somebody that you care about very much pass away, like having a sibling or a father or mother pass away and then you have those key moments, you know, a child is born, something like that, and you wish they were there for it. I think because immigrants and refugees lose so much, it's difficult sometimes to even celebrate those great moments of joy because they're so intermixed with grief. I think the understanding that helps us to realize how important it is to be a family that's truly caring and reflecting the love of Christ, not an additional thing. For immigrants and refugees, a lot of people who have a family here, who have a life here, they come to church. If you come to Christ, let's say, and you're an American who has a network here. All of that, it could feel like the church family is something that's additional, or even optional to some people when you're an immigrant or a refugee and you're received into the family of Christ and to the church. That is what you have. That is your family. It's not like a family, it's not an extended family, it is your family. That's why we really highlight that family concept. It's crucial, not because it's effective or nice, it's because it's all there is, and so, I've seen people who come from other countries who found a sense of family in the church here and I've been preaching in front of these people for, let's say six months, and they don't yet know a word of English, but they're sitting there because they have a sense of family outside of what the service is, and for me, that's always highlighted, that the Christian family that they are received in, that's it and that is everything.
Mentor Mama:
That's so fascinating because like you said, for a natural-born citizen, we maybe take that for granted, and I love how you've articulated it very well. What you, as an immigrant, feel, the church really becomes your family and I hope that stresses to those of us that are listening to be extra sensitive to that and to really help people feel like they are part of the family. Pastor Josh, where can we look in Scripture to find examples of what it looks like to care for immigrants and refugees?
Josh Sherif:
Scripture is full of the heart of God, and we know those Scriptures that talk about taking care of the widow and the orphan and the poor. We know, of course, about James talking about what true religion is. But for me, what I want to keep pointing us to is, not just those Scriptures, but the Scriptures that talk about who we are, that we have a common place with all of those people. I think when Jesus talks about not coming to heal those that are well, it's the sick who need a doctor. I think the great irony and sadness of that moment is not that Jesus was saying to the Pharisees and religious leaders that you are well, and, you know, don't worry about it. I'm here for these people and I think I would hate for us to look at this book and say, this is to frame the church for those we're receiving. I think much more than that, we need to all realize that Jesus came for us all, that we are all sick, that we are all strangers, that we are all foreigners, that we were all sinners and Scripture puts it this way, that while we were still enemies of God, while we were still sinners, Christ came and he died for us. So, for me, that's my hope is that we, in some sense, are never like those Pharisees of the day that walk away feeling like, you're right, we are well, we don't need this Jesus, but truly that we begin to recognize like the people of God did in the Old Testament, like people of God did in the New Testament, that God, we stand before you as foreigners and strangers, that the greatest family that we have, we're not born into, that as John 1:12 says we're adopted into. That’s the message I want people to understand. That those who believe in Jesus have a citizenship that can't be revoked, which is to be the people of God and the Kingdom of Heaven, and more importantly, to be children of God in his family regardless of what your birth is or what your origin is.
Mentor Mama:
Yes, I actually just read a Scripture in our church on Sunday and it was about the woman who came into the Pharisees home and she washed Jesus' feet with her tears and put the ointment on him and Jesus responding, those that are forgiven little, in comparison to her who was forgiven a lot, just that we can tend to compare and contrast ourselves with the Pharisees and this woman and I love how Jesus, kind of, called him out on it and allowed the woman really to be recognized for her heartfelt desire for Christ. Well, we see throughout the Bible that God's chosen people and even Jesus himself were made refugees and immigrants many times. How has Christianity been shaped by this history?
Josh Sherif:
I can share some thoughts on that. What I see in Scripture is, like I said before, God's people have always been a sojourning people and we see pretty early on, even just historically what happened to the church that it was really established in Jerusalem, but dispersed immediately. Even its establishment, it's been noted, that it’s very interesting that the crowd of its establishment, weren't all Jerusalem people, they were people gathered for festivals, the large conversion we see in Acts chapter two is a multicultural conversion. People who a lot of people would've seen in Jerusalem on that day as foreigners, guests, strangers coming into the city and so, we see something amazing happen in that world at that time where this, in some sense, united, but still multicultural and multilingual as we saw the disciples speaking in tongues, as well, asked you to reach all these people, a group was formed, and so, when persecution hit and the church was spread, it was equipped in many languages with many cultures to go many places and then just in the way that the Roman cities were set up, as they dispersed, it also became really a strange group because all these cities were split up into, in a sense, different divided sections to have the Christians gather was something that was unique to cities at the time, because it was people really coming from these different parts of the city with different backgrounds and different socioeconomic classes and uniting in households and that was something that I think caught the Empire's attention and that really scared them, not because they cared so much about what people believed, as much as what has the power to break down the walls between cultures, languages, and even, religious beliefs. It scared them because something that has this kind of uniting power can topple empires. And you see that in Acts 15 where the Philippian church is led by Lydia and this merchant class, and it has poor people and it has Roman jailers, and all of the sudden, you have people who should have higher allegiances to all these other things, they're coming under allegiance to Jesus, so I think it's important for us to continue that legacy and see ourselves that way and live that way fully in the context of the cities and places we live, but realizing that we belong to a different people group. And we have so much that can unite us, that the things that we feel divided over today, did not stop the people of God in the past and they didn't stop the church in the New Testament. They had language barriers and cultural barriers. They had been people who were against each other at points, and we see that reflected even in Paul's story as well, you know, an enemy turned into an Apostle. I can go on and on, but I do believe that the key is to walk the sojourner's journey with those who are walking into our country and we don't stop being God's people on the move.
Mentor Mama:
Absolutely, this kind of brings to mind an example that our pastor had used once, imagining God on top of the Empire State Building, looking down and from that vantage point, all the people look the same, they're just, kind of, like dots in the sense that you've taken off this layer of people being different from this vantage point that God sees us all as his children and when you take off the layers of things that aren't important, it's so reflective of how God sees us.
Josh Sherif:
Yeah, I agree. I think the lens that I'm impressed with in Scripture is how God handles our differences and the diversity that he sees. First of all, I don't think it's an accident that he's built it into us and I think there is a sense to a call I've realized for us to not just even get past those things, but to see them as strengths and celebrate those things. A multicultural church isn't reducing everything to its base components to say, we are just Christian, but it's to say that, you know, these cultures coming together really reflect the image of God in a powerful way and I think there is also that Revelation vantage point where everyone is worshiping at the throne of God and the thing that is mentioned there is that there is every tribe and nation and language, and so, even at the throne of God, there's this amazing diversity that he doesn't want to do away with in Heaven that he likes the tribes and the differences and the different languages. One of the things I love about language is that some languages are better at expressing certain emotions and thoughts than other languages and I've learned that there are some words that are just better not translated in some languages because they carry something so much more effectively. I hope to say too, like for me, what Sarah and I didn't realize in this process, we felt like we took on this project out of obedience, but at the end of it, when we sat back and looked, and Sarah, you can feel free to share on this, I think the strength of this book and this project is that we worked on it together. Some of the parts of the stories that you mentioned earlier are parts I wanted to gloss over. It's hard to share vulnerable stories. Some of the parts where I go a little further into teaching about some things or, or highlighting some parts more than I ever intended to and that's because I had somebody like Sarah, who's saying, Josh, we need to talk about this more, or you need to share this part of your story and this book would not be remotely what it is if we didn't have that collaboration, two different people coming from two different perspectives, two different cultures, two different origin languages, you name it. We, on paper, are very different, but I think there was a synergy and unity in this project that made it better than it could be if I did it myself or if Sarah wrote on this topic herself. Sarah, I don't know if you want to share more about that.
Sarah Tierney:
I agree. I think we didn't even realize that until we turned in our manuscript and we're like, oh, this is kind of a microcosm of what we're talking about and I think it goes deeper than just us like working on a project together. We have a deep friendship that has been around a long time. We met in college. Josh lived with my family for a summer, we've just spent a lot of time together. There are obstacles when you work on a project like this, there are just things that happen that pop-up and it did take us about five years to write the book, I think, so it was a process and I think we were able to do it because, not only did we work together and definitely there was a synergy as Josh said, but I think it is because we had a real understanding of one another. We had a deep relationship, a deep friendship, and so, I think it really grew, I think the book really became something that would never have existed if it was just one of us working on it. It really grew out of that friendship, and I love that and I just hope that gets repeated and I think that's Josh's heart in the book. As he said, he doesn't want to be heavy handed with the church. He wants to encourage it because it's really a success story. It really is. It's like the church did a good job. Like the church really loved him well, and he just wants to help people repeat the process and I love that so much.
Mentor Mama:
Yes, and I think absolutely, without a doubt for our readers, you'll be encouraged and this will be an impetus to really pull on your heartstrings to say, you know, am I being the hands and feet of the church as I should be? So, I think you two coming together have done that just beautifully well.
Mentor Mama:
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Mentor Mama:
You describe three obstacles that the church must overcome in order to be effective missionaries. Tell us what they are and what problems does it cause to leave them unresolved.
Josh Sherif:
Sarah, do you want to start on that?
Sarah Tierney:
I think we've spoken a little bit about that already. I think Josh touched on ignorance being one, we talked about inadequacy and indignation, so we alliterated it for your benefit. But I guess what I would like to say about it is, that we do dig into the heart issues. The problems. But I think what we like to talk more about is the solutions, you know, like what can we do? Yes, we do have some things that we need to uproot, but I love the solutions that Josh really offers, it really is Josh’s teaching. I think that they're simple in a way, but they're not easy. They are simple concepts that we're offering, but they really are challenging. Like, it is really hard to do some of the things that we're asking the church to do and I think that it's just a great encouragement to not only look at some of the hard issues that we have and some of the readers I think, will feel very challenged, but I'm hoping that most people will just feel motivated. That's what I'm hoping and that's what I'm hearing from you also is just that this is a great story. Anybody who reads Josh's story is not going to be able to put the book down. But really, I think his heart is to just motivate people and help people and encourage them to reach out and I'm excited just to hear some of the stories when that happens.
Mentor Mama:
Do you find that just in working with trying to encourage people to do this, like, there's just such an amazing, I don't want to say problem, but busyness, people are just, so self-centered in a lot of cases and just busy. Like it's almost like a teaching process of really letting go of all of my needs and what I need to do and prioritizing to be this family for other people. For example, like your kids can be involved in so many activities, you can be doing so many things, but I see the impact of what you're describing. Like that could be as long-lasting, as let's say, winning a football championship, right? Like the people that poured into your lives, you can have this impact that is just incomparable really.
Josh Sherif:
Yeah, I know I don't need any more to do and I assume it's the same with anyone who would read this book. I even understand that reading a book is something to do and so, even in the way we try to pace this book and split it up and everything, it was to respect people's time. And so, for me, I've read plenty of Christian books that were right on, but the gap between where I felt I was and where it was calling me to was so high that I just walked away feeling worse and not knowing what steps to take, not because I disagreed with anything they said. First of all, Scripture says that it's out of the overflow of the heart that our life is lived, and so that is why we aren't telling people don't do this and do this as much as to say, we want to address and frame the issues that are born in our hearts as human beings and in addressing those issues, and in calling people to think about themselves differently, to think about our world differently, think about others differently, I believe, I hope, that these things are not going to be tasks that we need to allocate time for, but as our heart has changed, as our mind is changed that is going to be the overflow of our life. One of the things that when I first moved to Chicago, I had a dream to reach people from all around the world, including here in the U.S. the American people, you know, one of the things people would ask me is well, what people group are you going to target here? Or what are you doing to reach this people group? And you know, after a while I felt a little overwhelmed and what I came to is the conclusion that if me and the people around me are equipped to love and disciple our neighbors, it doesn't matter what their background is. If they're American if they're from this country or that country and one of the stories I tell is, you know, the first person that came to Christ when I was planting a church a decade ago was a Hindu and I just knew nothing about Hinduism, just nothing. And I think that for me, serves as a story and pillar to say like I had these expectations and I had, even what I thought was cultural background expertise to each people and here comes a man that really, I have no answer for, and no equipping for, but I did have a heart to love and so did our people and to make disciples of those or around us. So that's what I hope we accomplish, not just, say, hey, allocate less time for sports and more time for reaching foreigners. I think those things naturally happen when our heart and our mind are changed, then our life begins to change.
Mentor Mama:
Yes. Oh, that's so true. Well, Josh, I certainly hope that there are immigrants or refugees reading this blog. If so, is there anything that you'd like to say to them or specifically to Muslim background believers such as yourself?
Josh Sherif:
Yeah, certainly. If you've walked a similar journey to me, if you're an immigrant or if you're a refugee then you know the cycle of fear that you're having to live in. And so, I want to just say to anyone who is in the midst of that, that I understand what you're going through and I sympathize with you and I'm already praying for those who might be listening to this. I want to let you know that Jesus doesn't offer us just easy answers that are lumps of sugar to swallow or nice sayings, but he is a God and a Savior who knows this world realistically for what it is and has overcome this world. Scripture tells us that when Jesus gathered his disciples, he let them know that in this world that they would have trouble, but he also told them behold, he has overcome this world, and so what I hope you hear today if you're outside of the church, is that you have a citizenship access to a citizenship that can't be revoked, that you have a right to be a child of God. The Apostle John writes that for those who believe have the right to become children of God, children not born of natural or anyone's desire or any natural line, but really adopted children of God. And so, that citizenship and that heritage, no one can take away from you, and it is your right as a child created in the image of God. And I know from personal experience that while you might feel alone and afraid and searching that there is a God who is after you and is with you and wants to have a relationship with you and wherever you are, even if it's just as you're reading this if you would just seek that God, I'm confident that where you knock the door will be open and he'll answer.
Mentor Mama:
Amen! Sarah, any final thoughts from you or hopes that you have for people who are reading this book?
Sarah Tierney:
Yes. We're here because we wrote this book, we obviously believe in this message, but we really just want to get it out there, and neither one of us have a big Facebook following. We don't have a Megachurch. We do need your help and I know that God is going to get this story into the hands of the people that need it and I have full confidence in that, but if you're listening, we designed this book for groups, so there are questions for reflection and study, but we also put out a small group guide recently and it's free. You can go to the Moody Publishing website. I think that's actually the cheapest place to get the book right now, as well. So, you can go to their website and order the book, and you just kind of scroll down and there's a box under the book that says the place where you can get the free study guide. We're going through it right now with my church and it's just been really transformational for my church and that's been awesome to watch. So, I just encourage you to get the book. I'm speaking, not as a writer, but as a reader right now, like I've read the book probably a hundred times by now in five years and truly it impacts me every time, it really does. It is a book that you can read again and again and again. So, I am just asking for your help to support the book and get the message out there. Thank you so much for having us today.
Mentor Mama:
I just loved having you on here. And yes, I love the idea of doing this book with a small group because, you know, when we're in our small groups, we're called to action, not just to be continually equipping our minds and learning more and more and more, but to be the hands and feet of Jesus as well. And I think this would set up nicely for a small group to do together.
Sarah Tierney:
Let me say one more thing about the small groups.
Mentor Mama:
Absolutely.
Sarah Tierney:
I hear that question and you previously asked about being busy, like Josh said, I don't need one more thing to do and I hear that and feel that deeply having kids of my own. So, I understand the busy schedule, but I think when we do things together, it just makes the load lighter and so, that's why we did intentionally write a really short book. It's very short, it's very readable, but we also really wanted it to be for groups because it's easier to go together. That's how this book happened. You know, we went together, so we go farther when we go together and I think this is a really great book for any group that would want to use it. So thank you.
Mentor Mama:
Yes, absolutely. Well, how can people find out more information about you both?
Sarah Tierney:
I'm on Instagram, so not very often, but my handle is @sarahlewwho, so that's where I am. I'm not really on any other social media so if you want to follow me, you can.
Josh Sherif:
I would say just Google the book's name or you can Google my name, Joshua Sherif and I think all my stuff comes up. Facebook, Instagram, all that.
Mentor Mama:
Excellent and we will also have links to all of these contacts in our show notes. Well, before we go, we want to ask you some of our favorite Bible study tool questions so our audience can continue to learn and get some new ideas. So what Bibles do you guys use and which translations are they?
Sarah Tierney:
I actually really love, and this is another one of your questions, but I love the Bible Hub website and app because when I'm reading or studying, I can see all the translations right there next to each other. And I can even see the Greek and dig deeper. I went to seminary, so I took Greek classes and stuff, and I remember having to go to the library and just get all these big books out, just to do a word study. It would take hours, but now I can click and it's in two seconds, I will be able to have more information about the actual original language. So, I just appreciate their website, and how they have it set up, and right now, I think I'm reading the New Living Translation. I think I just got done reading the ESV, so I like to read different translations. I think I grew up with the NIV, so that's kind of my preference, but I like to explore.
Mentor Mama:
Awesome.
Josh Sherif:
For me, it's mostly the NIV because of the same reason. It's the first English language Bible I started to read. So a lot of those verses just flow like the NIV for me. And then if we're talking about apps as well, I like the Street Lights Bible app and that is produced in Chicago here where I am. It's an audiobook Bible, it's the New Living Translation, and it is just very contemporary, amazing original music score and voice work. It's the most listenable Bible that I've heard, so I love to just put that on and listen to Scripture that way.
Mentor Mama:
Ooh, okay. I haven't heard that one before, we'll have to check that out. That's awesome. Lastly, then do you guys have any favorite journaling supplies or anything else that you like to use to enhance your Bible study experience?
Sarah Tierney:
I was thinking about this and I just use pen and paper really for journaling, but I was thinking about like a particular Bible study tool that has helped me a lot just because I actually do have Attention Deficit Disorder (A D D) and I'm a therapist who treats a lot of patients with A D D, and it is hard to concentrate and read and especially over the past few years with the amount of stress, the amount of information, people have had a really difficult time being able to focus on just reading the Bible. So not only have I been listening to the Bible, but I think you've even advertised this before, but the Alabaster books they have, they're beautifully, beautifully done, and they have these huge margins and for some reason, for my A D D brain, that has helped me so much over the past few years to grab some of those books and to read through. It’s just helped me focus and I think it's literally the way they have designed them to have so much margin and to just take it a small piece at a time. That's been really a blessing for me and a lot of my clients as well.
Mentor Mama:
That's a great suggestion.
Josh Sherif:
For me, I don't do anything fancy for journaling, but every once in a while, I'll go ahead and if I'm wanting to go through a book, I'll print it out and format it before I print it out so it's double-spaced and that way, I can circle words and I find that when I'm using my own Bible, I'm very careful, like, okay, I'm going to highlight this, but then I just take a lot of time to highlight it nicely or whatever. But if I just print it out and just say, this is going to sit on my desk, then I don't mind the minute something hits my head or something I want to circle or underline, I can just do that immediately and flip through and find connections, and so, that's helped me, just printing it out.
Mentor Mama:
I love that, that's a great idea, and if you have it double-spaced, then you can make notes. Oh, that's awesome, what a great suggestion. Well, Josh and Sarah, thank you so much for being here today to remind us of the importance of caring for immigrants and refugees, especially in our churches, and just modeling Jesus to those who need it most. So, thank you so much. For our readers, pick up a copy of Josh and Sarah's book, “The Stranger at Our Shore.” You can find the link in our show notes. Please also share your thoughts and comments with us while you're here. And lastly, head over to the Coffee and Bible Time website for our prayer journals that will help guide and document your prayer life at coffeeandbibletime.com. We also have two new courses available on how to pray using our prayer journal and prayer binder. Thank you so much for joining us on our blog today. We love you all. Have a blessed day.
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